Chevy needs to up their game.

"Spanfeller is a twat" (theaspiringengineer) 03/19/2019 at 17:41 • Filed to: None

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This thing is 1300 dollars cheaper than the Model 3 in Mexico, which means Chevrolet is selling an econo-box, FWD, lame as fuck electric car for almost the same price as a cool, RWD, luxurious Model 3.

Yes, it has a bit more range, but it must be fucking impossible to move these when the MSRP is 42,000 dollars! Also known as 1.2 Stinger GTs.

We don’t get a Federal Tax credit for EVs or hybrids here, but that didn’t stop Chevrolet from adding a ridiculous mark-up to the Bolt from the very begining. Above the 40k price levels, no one is pinching pennies, and I really think that the arrival of the model 3 here, along the very competitive pricing will prove to be a problem for the Bolt, and the 3er hybrid, and the A4.

I sat in a Model 3 Long Range today and it feels every bit as solid as any mid size luxury sedan. Originally I didn’t care for it since I expected Tesla to sell them for a lot more here than in the US, but I was proven wrong...

T he MSRP is comparable to an 2.0 Audi A4 TFSI, cheaper than the BMW 330e, and the C300. Key difference is that the Audi and the Merc would be stuck paying a very high roadtax and require emissions inspections every six months. The Tesla doesn't pay or need either.

SPAMBot - Horse Doctor > Spanfeller is a twat 03/19/2019 at 17:48

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In the US:

The 3 “standard range plus” is $37,000 according to Tesla’s site.

The standard bolt is $36,620 according to Chevy

I know which one I would rather look at in my garage...

Spanfeller is a twat > SPAMBot - Horse Doctor 03/19/2019 at 17:49

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I think it's clear Chevrolet needs to flex their "economies of scale" muscles if they want to shift the, increadibly expensive to develop, Bolt EV.

Danimalk - Drives a Slow Car Fast > Spanfeller is a twat 03/19/2019 at 17:51

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Please identify what is “luxurious. ”

I can’t seem to to find it... 

SPAMBot - Horse Doctor > Spanfeller is a twat 03/19/2019 at 17:51

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At least they beat VW to building an electric car. But it seems so half-assed. Just like most of GM’s other products.

Spanfeller is a twat > Danimalk - Drives a Slow Car Fast 03/19/2019 at 17:55

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It has cruise control
It has a nice stereo
It has parking cameras
It has navigation, bluetooth, etc
It is automatic
It has LED lights
You never need to visit a gas station again
You can park at EV specific spots
It has a glass roof
It has one of the highest ratings from the NHSA


Many of the competitors don’t offer those functions as standard equippment

Spanfeller is a twat > SPAMBot - Horse Doctor 03/19/2019 at 17:59

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As far as the drive gear goes,it isn’t halfed ass, it has a good range, and a powerful motor (albeit in the wrong place)... Though I have serious reservations about the cabin.

It’s almost as if they don’t really want to build electric vehicles...

fintail > Spanfeller is a twat 03/19/2019 at 18:01

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That aint luxury, pretty common stuff in an everyday Hyunkia these days (save for the gas station and parking bit, but not everyone is lucky/bootstrapping enough to have easy access to charging infrastructure)

Spanfeller is a twat > fintail 03/19/2019 at 18:05

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I know, but at least here, a nice stereo is an optional extra , and navigation is an optional extra too, so is the glass roof, and the LED lights. It's a lot more luxurious than a base model 330e or A4 2.0 TFSI (even if those probably already have leatherette)

BaconSandwich is tasty. > Spanfeller is a twat 03/19/2019 at 18:05

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If only they could make a business out of government bailouts...

Spanfeller is a twat > BaconSandwich is tasty. 03/19/2019 at 18:09

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Maybe they're saving up their EV tax credits for a more special car... Or maybe they're hoping gas never goes up and Silverados keep a sellin'

SPAMBot - Horse Doctor > Spanfeller is a twat 03/19/2019 at 18:09

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That is pretty much what I mean. GM normally does one thing really well when they make a new car. They then phone in the rest and wonder why they can’t beat their intended competition.

Spanfeller is a twat > SPAMBot - Horse Doctor 03/19/2019 at 18:11

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I mean, maybe they could electrify the new CT5... the Bolt's drivetrain would fit that car like a glove.

fintail > Spanfeller is a twat 03/19/2019 at 18:11

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Yep optional extras, but still not uncommon even on mass market brand cars that can cost a bit less when loaded up with those extras , even here. And a fun thing, I can find one on the lot in 10 mins, unlike the mythical 35K USD 3 .

That being said, GM has an iffy pricing strategy there, which is sometimes a historical norm for the company.

Spanfeller is a twat > fintail 03/19/2019 at 18:15

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Yes, but then again those cars require more servicing, are much more loud, and do have a series of setbacks that split them away from the Model 3.

Now, is a base model 330e a mass market car? Yes... but no one claims it’s not luxurious, even when covered in cloth rather than leather.

I know tesla interiors are spartan, but at this price point I think it’s up to par with the European counterparts. Now, when it comes to a Model S P100D though.... that's not comparable to an M5.

SPAMBot - Horse Doctor > Spanfeller is a twat 03/19/2019 at 18:21

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They should really just start buying Tesla’s skateboards (or buying the rights to build their own) and build cars on top of that with their extensive manufacturing experience. That might be where the world is going. Hopefully we can relive some truly beautiful coach built vehicles.

SPAMBot - Horse Doctor > Danimalk - Drives a Slow Car Fast 03/19/2019 at 18:22

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It seems slightly less meh than this:

Too be fair, I rode in one model S (one of the early cars), and it didn’t particularly seem like too nice of a place to be. Certainly not terrible, but not a Mercedes. It seemed more on the level of Cadillac (premium or upscale American, not luxury). But it had some cool features and having that much range in 2013 was pretty impressive. Range will become cheaper so some of this cost can go into nicer interiors. I’m neither a Tesla fanboi or a hater. I do have a strong dislike for Elon, though

Spanfeller is a twat > SPAMBot - Horse Doctor 03/19/2019 at 18:23

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So, sort of how they take diesel engines from Cummins?

Honeybunchesofgoats > Spanfeller is a twat 03/19/2019 at 18:24

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“ It has cruise control”

So does a Camry.

“ It has a nice stereo”

See above.

“ It has parking cameras”

That’s literally everything that might make its way into the US, because it’s required by law.

“ It has navigation, bluetooth, etc”

So does everything.

“ It is automatic”

So is everything, sigh. Also, a manual electric?

“ It has a glass roof”

Fair, if that’s your deal.

Spanfeller is a twat > Honeybunchesofgoats 03/19/2019 at 18:32

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Many of those are optional extras on the BMW, the Audi, and even the Mercedes. If the 330e is considered a luxurious car, then the Model 3 should be considered so too.

fintail > Spanfeller is a twat 03/19/2019 at 18:32

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None of that is luxury though. That was my mocking point, a 3 isn’t luxurious. Needing less service (cultists will claim no service) isn’t luxury. I can counter that with the inconsistent build quality. Heck, S and X aren’t the poshest things inside, either. Teslas have plenty of merits, but luxury is not one of them .

Spanfeller is a twat > fintail 03/19/2019 at 18:33

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But what makes a BMW 3er luxurious then?

SPAMBot - Horse Doctor > Spanfeller is a twat 03/19/2019 at 18:33

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The Duramax is (was?) an Isuzu engine. The Cummins goes in the Dodge. But yeah, something like that.

Honeybunchesofgoats > Spanfeller is a twat 03/19/2019 at 18:38

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To be fair, a 330, like a CLA/C is basically only luxurious because people think anything by their respective marques is luxurious. I’m not saying the 3 isn’t nice for its segment, it’s just not a luxury car (neither is pretty much anything in the $30k segment). Now the Model S? That’s a car that really suffers in the luxury segment compared with other things in its price range. 

Spanfeller is a twat > Honeybunchesofgoats 03/19/2019 at 18:46

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I agree wholeheartedly that the Model S and the Model X are woefully inadequate for the segment that they’re percieved to be in.

But I think that the Model 3 is competitve... I don’t think it’s a strech to call it luxurious considering what the bar is fo r the Mexican market (The best selling car is the Chevrolet Aveo) and the hot mess that the Bolt is.

Honeybunchesofgoats > Spanfeller is a twat 03/19/2019 at 18:51

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I totally agree with your overall thesis. If Chevy was smart, they’d take a huge loss on the Bolt just to kill Tesla and then use the R&D on profitable electric models.

A lot of car makers, especially before the 3 came out, seemed to be too enamored with the fact that Tesla was getting people to pay $70k for an electric car when what they really should have been doing was trying to dominate the $35k and lower end of things. Even now, everyone wants that segment, even though they’d be better off with a budget electric. 

carcrasher88 > fintail 03/19/2019 at 18:52

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Actually, you do get the gas station and parking bit, if you’ve got an Ionic Electric, Kona Electric, or Soul EV.

Spanfeller is a twat > Honeybunchesofgoats 03/19/2019 at 18:57

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They need to take a loss on the Bolt now, while they can afford it with heavy, gas-guzzling trucks and SUVs being the companies cash cows. I don't think the Bolt and the Model 3 will get cross-shopped often... but if Chevrolet made the Bolt cheaper I bet it would start to trouble the A3 and the Golf.

Honeybunchesofgoats > Spanfeller is a twat 03/19/2019 at 19:01

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Exactly.  They’re already shutting plants because they know markets are going to crash.  I guess the only worry is that if they start taking a loss now, it’ll be a lot harder to adjust prices when everything goes to shit.

jimz > Spanfeller is a twat 03/19/2019 at 19:25

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Tesla has the luxury of being allowed to burn tons of cash based on the promise of future growth.  GM doesn’t. 

Spanfeller is a twat > jimz 03/19/2019 at 19:35

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Maybe, but GM has many luxuries Tesla doesn’t have.

jimz > Spanfeller is a twat 03/19/2019 at 19:42

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pricing a car at a money losing MSRP is not one of them.

and the simple fact is, most of Tesla’s volume so far has been from people who have “gotta have a Tesla!” The Bolt does not have the brand or the Elon. It has to sink or swim on its own. 

Spanfeller is a twat > jimz 03/19/2019 at 20:06

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The Bolt is already a loss leader, so I do think they can afford to cut it even a bit more if it means Chevrolet will be considered an established player in the EV sector , specially considering that they expect the costs of production to go down significantly as time passes.

Maybe GM could go even further and offer the powertrain from the Bolt in a CUV, or in a Cadillac to try and get a thicker profit margin.

Sure, very few brands have the perception Tesla has, but I think GM more than makes up for it with sales and production infrastructure, RnD capacity, and financial stability.

jimz > Spanfeller is a twat 03/19/2019 at 20:08

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The core problem is that we don’t yet know if the EV market is much bigger than the “I gotta have a Tesla” crowd.

Eury - AFRICA TWIN!!!!!!! > Spanfeller is a twat 03/19/2019 at 20:10

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Did you just say the Model 3 is luxurious? I just test drove a loaded dual motor performance  last weekend, it’s a cool car, but that interior is made of tupperware, it’s garbage. My Subaru has nicer materials and is better built.

Spanfeller is a twat > jimz 03/19/2019 at 20:18

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Well, the ICE engine market is going to start losing share eventually, be it by consumer preference, or by government intervention.

I personally think that in the future hydrogen is going to be the most widespread fuel... I'm probably wrong about it though.

Spanfeller is a twat > Eury - AFRICA TWIN!!!!!!! 03/19/2019 at 20:19

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I sat in one today, it feels very nice. I don’t have recol ection of any Subaru feeling even remotely as good.

There’s too much gloss black though.

jimz > Spanfeller is a twat 03/19/2019 at 21:00

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Well, the ICE engine market is going to start losing share eventually,

agree. but it’ll take longer than some believe, if not simply due to the fact that cars last a fairly long time. Automotive tech is moving fast, but it can’t pull everything along with it.

I personally think that in the future hydrogen is going to be the most widespread fuel... I’m probably wrong about it though.

hydrogen is theoretically the perfect fuel.  burning it produces nothing but water. companies like Toyota, Honda, and Ford are probably wise to keep looking at FCV tech.  But hydrogen has a bunch of downsides.  it can leak through and embrittle metals, it can be “detonatable” over a wide range of  air:hydrogen ratios, and it’s a total pain in the ass to store and transport. 

Spanfeller is a twat > jimz 03/19/2019 at 21:07

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I think that the great thing about hydrogen is that you don’t end up with a 1200 pound slab of hard to recycle, rare metals at the end of the vehicle’s life cycle. But the downsides remain considerable...

jimz > Spanfeller is a twat 03/19/2019 at 21:16

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lithium isn’t hard to recycle, it’s just not economical to do so right now. Cobalt? yeah, but people are working on reducing/eliminating cobalt from ce lls.

nermal > jimz 03/19/2019 at 21:27

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The ICE engine market has already lost share at the high end (>$75k) to Teslas. I think this trend will compound over the next 3-5 yrs due to EVs moving down market. The biggest concern for domestic automakers should be electric pickups, not cars .

Agreed that H is a better fuel for transportation in theory. The two biggest problems with it are the energy required to actual creating the H to a “fuel” , and avoiding creating a Hindenburg-on-wheels.

nermal > Spanfeller is a twat 03/19/2019 at 21:28

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The biggest problem with the Bolt isn’t the car itself, it’s the morons in dealerships selling them. They would be better served as a stand-alone brand in a location that doesn’t have the rest of the lineup. 

fintail > Spanfeller is a twat 03/19/2019 at 22:03

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T he badge (and I never said a 3er was luxurious).

jimz > nermal 03/20/2019 at 02:40

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The ICE engine market has already lost share at the high end (>$75k) to Teslas.

that has not been conclusively demonstrated.

nermal > jimz 03/20/2019 at 08:57

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At least in the US, there were twice as many sales of the Model S last year as comparable cars. See: http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2019/01/large-luxury-car-sales-in-america-december-2018/

Model 3 is even further ahead . See:

http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2019/01/small-and-midsize-luxury-car-sales-in-america-december-2018/